Welcome to Trust Your Sacred Feminine Flow.
Each month on the podcast, I share intimate conversations with (r)evolutionary women about their journey to embody their sovereignty and change the world.
Lori McDaniel is the founder of Rainbow Bridges, a transformational learning community for women that is dedicated to transforming racism into love through the power of conversations.
Her specialty is in bringing warmth and grace to subjects that are hard for people to talk about. She creates a safe chrysalis for growth, learning and tender vulnerability that leads to deep and lasting transformation.
She is currently leading a program for women called “Confident and Clear” that teaches women how to have confident, clear, transformative conversations about race. She also leads transformational women’s circles and participates in sacred Feminine spiritual work.
Her background includes 20 years of corporate technology consulting, training and learning design. Along the way, she became a transformational coach and facilitator and has coached hundreds of people over the last decade. She is formally trained in transformational learning methodologies, which includes transformational design, coaching and facilitation.
Lori shared what’s in the conversational tool box she gives her students. We also discussed:
- The 3 things you need to have a transformative conversation about race (or anything).
- What Racism is and what it isn’t
- Light work and Race
- Lori’s family legacy of lightwork and service
- Feminine Power from Claire Zammit
Also mentioned in this episode:
Transformational Design
White Fragility by D’Angelo
How to Be an Anti-Racist by Ibram X Kendi
Website – https://rainbow-bridges.teachable.com/p/confident-and-clear
FB Group – https://www.facebook.com/groups/750918988808015/
Listen to Transformative Conversations on Race with Lori McDaniel by clicking the play button on the audio player below.
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Read the Full Transcript Here:
Joni
Welcome to the show Beloveds. I’m so glad to be with you again, and I am delighted to share my guest with you today. I have invited Lori McDaniel to join us. So welcome Lori.
Lori: Thank you so much for having me.
Joni
Yes, it’s taken us a while to get this together, but I’m glad we were finally able to do so. So let me tell my listeners a little bit more about you and everything you’re doing. So Lori is the founder of Rainbow Bridges, a transformational learning community for women that is dedicated to transforming racism into love through the power of conversations. Her background includes 20 years of corporate technology consulting, training and learning design. And along the way, she became a transformational coach and facilitator, and has coached hundreds of people over the last decade. She is formally trained in transformational coaching methodologies, which include transformational design, coaching and facilitation. She is currently leading a program called confident and clear that teaches women how to have confident, clear transformative conversations about race. She also leads transformational women’s circles and participates in sacred feminine, spiritual work. Her specialty is in bringing warmth and grace to subjects that are hard for people to talk about. She creates a safe Chrysalis for growth learning and tender vulnerability that leads to deep and lasting transformation. Welcome Lori.
Lori: Thank you so much, Joni.
Joni
Hmm. So I have to say each segment that as I deepened through your bio of what you’re open or what you’re up to my heart was kind of opening more and more, and this idea like each, each new thing was like, and that, and that, and that, and this idea that you create a safe Chrysalis for growth learning and tender vulnerability is such a powerful medicine do. So I would love to just hear you speak about just that aspect of yourself or how you came to recognize that was one of your soul gifts.
Lori
Hmm. Yes. Thank you for that. Yeah. I think I’ve always known that I was compassionate and sort of tough on the outside and sort of tender on the inside, you know, and, and very sensitive to how other people felt. And of course in adulthood realizing that that’s, you know, empathic ability really sensitive to energy, being sensitive to how other people feel and so on and caring about it and caring about how others feel and in the work that I’m doing now around, um, both empowering women, uh, in general, which is a passion of mine and then empowering women to have great conversations, authentic, transformative conversations around race. I really realized over time, you know, coaching so many people, you know, getting trained in transformational design, like how do you actually like orchestrate a transformation, right? And that it can be orchestrated, you know, it can be paused. And so in, in that, in, in these experiences, it just became really clear to me that there has to be this really tender, safe, warm Driftless that people can grow in, you know, and feel safe in to, to be imperfect, you know, and to grow and know it’s so difficult in any kind of sticky, um, or emotionally charged conversation, much less around one of the most charged conversations to feel that way
Really where that comes from is that it became really clear to me as a tr you know, my mission, my sole mission is transformation. And so I’ve gotten trained in how to do that, and I’ve gotten good at how to actually it, and it only happens when there is that, that warm, safe space that tender, tender place to expand and grow and transform.
Joni
Yes. So the women that you’re working with, the women that are participating in your program, have you seen kind of that evolution coming from that place of safety? Or can you describe that or tell us a little bit about it?
Lori
Yeah, actually it’s … So I love that question. I was really happy and just really satisfied last week in our … I have a 10 week program, which I’ve shared with you about, Confident and Clear. And we’re in the last couple of weeks of it. And so we’ve been reflecting on the growth, I’ve actually asked for women to share, I really want you to reflect on and appreciate the growth that you’ve gone through. And so one of the women shared, a white woman in the course, she shared that she’s so much more comfortable now being uncomfortable.
Joni: Oh, wow.
Lori
Yeah, it I thought it was so profound for her to put it that way, because it’s so uncomfortable to be talking about race from any point of view, it’s not comfortable. And yet, so many of us don’t talk about it enough because we’re not comfortable being so uncomfortable, And I loved that she had had that growth breakthrough where she still feels uncomfortable, but she’s created, she now kind of has this ability to create, resources around her, like, like a bubble.
So she can be, she can be safe and feel safe emotionally while she’s feeling uncomfortable. It’s sort of paradoxical, but that’s one of the things that I teach, you know, how, how to actually create that from within.
Joni
Yeah. So it’s a real sense of resilience is what I’m hearing. You’re fostering a resilience as in a capacity to hang in there on that tough edge. Yeah. And just make yourself at home.
Lori
That’s a really great way of saying that’s right, because I think we’re conditioned to be very fragile. You know, there’s certain, I really love the book and the body of work, White Fragility by Robin de Angelo. And I think that it applies to white people exactly as she says. And there’s what I’ve started to call color fragility in general too, or people who were so uncomfortable out there on the skinny branches, you know, I like your analogy so fragile. Like we just kind of like Ahh, I can’t take it, and then we run away or we blow up or we get defensive or we attack and that’s kind of a cross color. It just looks different. You know, it comes out a little differently. And so I think that the resilience you’re pointing to is a good way of calling it. And I also name it as resources. I shouldn’t say I named it that way. I’m mentored in the realm of Feminine Power by Dr. Claire Zammit and I’m in her facilitation world as a mentee facilitator. And she gives us permission to incorporate aspects of her work. One of the most important things in feminine power is to develop and cultivate this ability to resource yourself from within not from circumstances or what someone’s saying or not saying, you know, that kind of thing.
Joni
Yes. Well that, yeah. That’s where our true power lies, because if we’re relying on external circumstances to keep us safe, we’re basically in trouble.
Lori
Right? Exactly. You’re going to be fragile and not be able to be in these conversations, or to … you’re always going to be falling to pieces is what I call it. You know, feeling falling to pieces you’re too fragile to be in these conversations unless you have that ability to source yourself from within.
Joni
Yes. That’s one of the things that I love about that perspective, but also, I’m really curious, just speaking with you as you are someone who identifies as a Lightworker. So, which to me implies spirituality in nature, but you’re also dealing with this really real life nitty gritty, like on the ground, uh, boots on the ground issue. And, and that is like that for me is a really interesting combination. And so I would love it if you’re open to it, just to hear you talking about within yourself, like how those worlds integrate or how one informs the other. Do they inform each other? Does your kind of working with the real life pain and suffering in the world, Does it inform your light work so to speak? Or do you know what I’m asking? I’m being clear?
Lori
Oh yeah, definitely. I, it’s a really interesting question that I really haven’t thought about it the way that you’re asking it. It’s really interesting to me and it’s layered, you know, there’s layers to what you’re pointing to. And, I think that it’s interesting in the American context when you’re talking about like, that’s one thing that is a layer, I think what you’re illuminating. And the term Lightworker is generally not someone who is in the Christian, the traditional kind of Judeo-Christian environment. Generally I think that word connotes someone who’s more in the quote unquote new age world of spirituality. It’s getting broader, which is exciting to me. Broader and it’s going more mainstream. I was definitely brought up outside of Christianity. I come from, yeah, my mom is a Unity minister.
Joni: Wow.
Lori
Yeah. She’s just a real goddess. And she brought us up ironically in Orange County, California, which is very Christian, traditional Christian. And so we kind of had to hide in a lot of ways because. I think you would probably understand this being where you live is that in a majority traditional Christian environment, if you’re not that you’re vilified. And it’s actually not a joke, it’s not like a light.
Joni
Right, Right, right. It’s interesting because in a way it is, it could be like the issue of race where you are literally more vulnerable in some ways, in some real concrete ways, just by virtue of your being who you are.
Lori
Yes. Yeah. I think that’s well said. And I think that growing up her mother and her mother, they were also outside of, my great-grandmother was a Christian scientist. And so my grandmother was raised in that. And then she kind of did her own thing as an adult, loves that world, but also was a Unitarian and then ended up in Unity. And then my mom came along and dabbled in everything and then became a minister.
Joni: Wow.
Lori
So that really, was how I was raised inside the home. And so for me, I feel like I came to the term lightworker in adulthood, but that is who I come from, all the women have been Lightworkers of some kind. And even in other parts of the family tree, I’ve realized they were all Lightworkers without, without leaving traditional Christianity necessarily. They were still at turn within there, but they were leaders within social justice, you know, suing the government for discrimination or, or what have you, lots of different sort of stories where they stood up for social justice and were kind good people, leaders in the community, that kind of thing, first African-Americans to do things and so on. So they were all kind of carrying the torch.
Joni:
Wow. So it sounds like you really are living out in a way your legacy are there, you know, there has been a legacy of this, both activism and being really in the world, but also having the strong, spiritual support or backing or, or connection.
Lori
Yes, absolutely. And I, and I also think that part of the layering of your thank you for naming that so well yes. And I think that part of your question is very interesting to me from the point of view of race in a Western country and particularly in America. Because I think that any, any, I would, I would guess this is just me guessing, but if you were to talk to any black people who call themselves, Lightworkers, it would never be separate from race.
Joni
Ahhh, see, that’s why I’m honored and delighted to have this conversation with you, in part just my own curiosity or how, how that yeah. Just to understand, just to understand more deeply your experience.
Lori
Yeah. Right. Yeah. I really appreciate the question. It’s very rich for me to see that point of view, because I’ve never thought of them as separate. And neither point of view is the truth. It’s just different right. Lived experiences. And certainly my light work, I think until recently didn’t center on race. It was really women and current events have really like, for so many people have, have activated me, you know. I realized, Oh, I was coded for this.
Okay. Got it. It’s not something to do with other things. It’s actually center now for me. And really it’s with women too. Earlier I was, I was dabbling. I had kind of women in the center of my transformational work facilitator and, and it just kind of has and it, it’s almost like it’s not me doing it, I’m just kind of an agent of Spirit. Of my soul. Right. So now it’s like race is really front and center.
Joni
Yes. And for anyone who isn’t necessarily familiar with the term lightworker, because I of course make assumptions about what that means. But for you, can you just articulate specifically when you say Lightworker what that means for you?
Lori
Hmm. That’s a great, I love that. It’s so funny. I started looking into that word a few years ago when it started, when I came across it more. And I was like, well, what do people mean by it? And I, and I really settled for myself on it’s someone who’s spreading light intentionally really intentionally. They know this is who they are, they know this is what they’re doing. They have their way that they’re doing it or ways, you know, there are, I think that’s a little different from someone who, you know, you can tell they’re a Lightworker, but maybe they’re, you know, they’re sitting this life out. They’re a great person. They’re like amazing in their community, whatever their community, you know, maybe they’re even in a fundamental religion. Right. But that’s, that, that to me is distinct from the word light worker, because there’s intent, you’re really conscious of it. You know, you’re intentionally doing whatever it is that you’re doing.
Joni
Right. Well, it’s, to me, it really blends with this idea for you or this mission statement of transformation that I hear your intention of bringing light and transforming all the pieces that you are capable of bringing your light to, so to speak.
Lori
Yeah. Yeah. That’s really, I really appreciate the language you’re bringing to that. I think that’s really well articulated.
Joni
Thank you. Thank you. So, so would you like to talk about your program Confident and Clear? Or help me distinguish between Rainbow Bridges and the Confident in Clear. Is one the program and the other the community?
Lori
Yeah. That’s exactly right. Rainbow Bridges is the name of my organization. Underneath that, if you will, you can think of Confident and Clear as a, just a program of programs. I don’t have other programs just yet. There are more coming. And so that’s the main one.
And yes, just to tell you a little bit about it, it’s really gonna morph. I’m very much in the I’m, I’m from a corporate background in training. And so I’ve been evolving out of that in some ways, in terms of masculine energy and how to wield masculine power and not have it wield me.
Joni: Yes. Well said.
Lori
Right. And really cultivating a lot of feminine energy and feminine approaches to things which means for me, allowing things to morph, even as I apply structure, you know, so there will be more, there’s going to be a morphing, I think in 2020, one of some of what Confident and Clear is, is offering in the structure right now, it’s a 10 week program though.
And as I was saying before, we’re in the last couple of weeks of my current program. I’m going to launch another one at the end of January. And what we do is we, we go it’s for women of all colors. And we do three things. I say that there are three things that really, you want to undertake to have great transformative conversations about race, and really be able to keep your emotional balance and clarity and competence in these conversations. And one is emotional work. Two is intellectual work and three is conversational work. And, I weave all of that into the session, and, and what people are up to between the sessions as well. It’s some Feminine Power, which is based on Dr. Claire Zammit’s work. It’s an amazing transformational body of work. And I think that what she has done with that body of work is actually the keys to the kingdom for resolving a lot of things, things.
And so I weave that in as the emotional work so that women can become unblocked. Unblocked, unfettered to be really rooted in their own power and their own inner deep wisdom. That’s a chunk. Yeah. That’s like the cornerstone of the program.
And then with that unblocked energy, right? You can then step into reading, you know, a book like White Fragility or How to be an Anti-Racist and then apply those things to conversations. So the intellectual and the conversational work really go hand in hand. The intellectual work as well. If you don’t know what’s going on in a conversation in terms of historic, history and socialization, if you can’t hear the pieces hear the history, see the socialization that’s happening over there with that other person. And with yourself, it’s going to be like a swirly, like it’s going to be confusing. Like you can feel that things are off when people say certain things. But if you haven’t done enough intellectual, reading, thinking and connecting the dots.
Joni: Yes, yes and yes.
Lori
It’s like, you can have all the confidence in the world and be so centered and you’re enlightened. And you’re like why does that make me feel so off when that person says that? So the way I see it, you’ve got to deal with the emotions and the confidence. Right. And the being rooted in your wisdom, the cognitive intellectual. You know, well, when they said that, okay, they’re saying that because that’s actually a historical theme that has morphed and now I’ve read about it and can recognize it and speak to it. And then the conversational piece is practice. You know, I give people what’s called a conversational toolbox and it’s like three different, it’s three columns. And on the left, you see things that people say that are very common. You know, say, I don’t want to say anything cause I don’t know. I don’t want to offend people, but well, that’s okay. I’ll just be honest and own how I feel if someone says, all lives matter.
Joni: Oh yes.
Lori
Like that’s problematic for me, it says to me that they haven’t, they don’t understand history or socialization around race. And that they are in a defensive posture. And so there’s nothing I can do or say about that though. Even if I’m blissed out and confident, if I haven’t read things and educated myself about why it’s problematic. And so in the toolkit, I give people things that they can say and they develop their own things that they can say to these common things. And it’s like this exploration where I give a lot. Right. Like here’s what I think is going on. I think it’s a universalism, good/bad binary, you know, from the book white fragility, for example, or here’s a classic, anti-racist, here’s a classic racist versus anti-racist theme. And then here’s what I suggest you say, and I have that in the toolkit, but then it comes a co-creation with the people in the class every week to create their own as well, and like add to their own toolkit. And then we’re practicing as well. We’re role playing.
Joni: Wow. Wow. So you do this in, is it a group for like a zoom group?
Lori
Yeah, it’s Zoom. And we’re together for a lot of the class. And then we go into breakout rooms when it’s time to role play and practice. Yeah.
Joni
Wow. Do you have? I’m assuming, well, I won’t assume to you, I miss. Well, I’m guessing perhaps you, you really, uh, curate or assess who is participating that you need a certain degree of maturity and positive intent. Is that correct?
Lori: Yes.
Joni: To be able to participate, I would think.
Lori
Yeah, absolutely. I think that you raise a really good point. And I’m still at the size it’s small and intimate for now. I expect it to grow quite a bit next next year. And so I have had that question in my mind, am I going to continue having a one-on-one conversation with everyone who comes in, you know, and I think I do think that that’s important for now. I can see it because I’ve seen very large organizations with like hundreds, hundreds of women in a program actually do that with certain programs to make sure that their people are of good intent. I do think that that’s, I do think that that’s important. On the other hand, the other kind of question that I have, it’s like a question mark. it’s like this, this big living question that I have that I suspect will get answered. You know, when I have to answer it right when I want, when I have 500 people who want to take the class, have this question answered, which is, well, what about the people who, who underneath it all, even though they’re perhaps argumentative and defensive or attacking, they actually do really want the transformation and do really care.
I do have that as this open question. So I don’t have an answer for that yet, but I do really, in my heart, I do want to offer my gifts to those people so that they can have some so that they can have some peace ultimately. Ultimately they are suffering, you know, just as long, just as much as anyone.
Joni
Yes, Yes, yes. So you’re staying in that inquiry and, and trusting it will, you’ll get the opportunity to meet that at some point.
Lori
At some point. Yeah. Yeah. I think I’ll have to, I may have to open it up in some ways, you know, I don’t know, it’s a juicy question.
Joni
Yes. And it will be, it certainly when that day comes, it will certainly be an indication of your, of your growth to that point, meaning the size and the reach, which will be a great problem to have in a way.
Lori: In a way. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Joni
It’s the beauty, beauty of leadership where you get to handle those, those complex and thorny issues.
Lori
Yes, it is. And it is an indicator. I think, of the impact you’re having, which I, which I welcome. I’m not sure that I’ve ever really cared about, fame, money, all the ego parts of it. Um, however, I do see that when you are dealing with problems like that, it means your reach is wide. That’s a blessing.
Joni
Yes. So tell us about Rainbow Bridges and where is this community? How do people connect with your community?
Lori
Yeah, absolutely. It’s all online. My vision is to build on what I call my tech nerdery. I was a tech nerd for many years and was in the technology industry for very, for a long time. And my vision is really to have a global transformational learning community.
Joni: Wow.
Lori
It’s actually modeled after Claire’s, Zammit’s amazing Feminine Power global community, where thousands of, she has thousands of women in her community and thousands of women have gone through her programs over the years. And it’s all been virtual, you know?
Joni: Wow.
Lori
It’s just extraordinary what you can accomplish in terms of transformational work virtually. I’ve always, as a tech nerd been really passionate about it, even in my, in my tech career. And so now I’m parlaying all of that. I’m building all of that to build out this global community of women who come together around this subject. It’s very much an intentional endeavor to, to do the emotional work, to do the intellectual work and to do the conversational practice all together.
Whether it’s in a program or I’m going to have open practice sessions as well. Where people can just kind of practice, you know because sometimes you just need to practice. You’re actually kind of good at it, but you need a little tune-up, that kind of thing is going to be offered as well. And that’s, that’s really the vision is that it, that it is a lot, it has, has a very wide reaching impact and that the transformation is very deep. You know, it’s not just like, let’s go right let’s surface and sell that, sell millions of these things to every person in the world.
Joni: To build your empire, so to speak.
Lori
Right? Because you get what I’m saying. Like sometimes go wide people skim off the depth to make it more palatable to more people. But my vision is to be palatable to the masses, if you will, while still retaining the depth. And it’s all going to be virtual and inside of a beautiful, safe, warm community.
Joni
I love that. Yes. So that’s why I knew when I choose guests, I always feel like, yes, this, this is somebody that I need to have a conversation with. And you just said the words, the depth. Like not, not a lot of, well, a lot of things do matter to me, but depth is up there at the top of the list.
Lori
Yes. Me. I really get it. Me too. I just sort of have no, I just don’t have any tolerance isn’t quite the right word. I’m not magnetized by surface things at all.
Joni
Yes, yeah. I absolutely get you there. Yeah It’s so rich. Depth is so … I don’t understand why everyone doesn’t love it.
Lori
Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s just, when you experience depth, when people have not, been, when they’re not doing it with skill it’s so confronting to people. It’s so confronting and scary. And it makes you start to, I think that there’s a fragmentation that can happen, which is a natural part, right? It’s a natural part of the Caterpillar going into the Chrysalis. There’s a fragmentation that happened that actually turns into goop in there. It dissolves. But if you don’t have the skill, if you throw people into depth without the skill and intentionality to create the Chrysalis then they’re just goop. They’re just you know, I don’t even, I’m not sure how to say what it is, but it isn’t pretty.
Joni
No, you’re right. You’re right. It is, it is actually the healthy, masculine. It is the structure. It is the context. It is the guard rails. And it’s part of what I appreciate about your program and the way that you have delineated these different skillsets. And it seems to me, I know that the, the, we’ll say the conduit or the portal in is the question or the conversation of race, but it certainly seems generalizable for once people learn those skills around racial conversations, they could take them to any other difficult conversation.
Lori
Yeah, that’s exactly right. And that, and I’m glad you brought that up. That is something that the women in my program have been sharing. They are finding themselves with a lot more ease in these difficult situations. You know, for example, one of the women had a conflict with her sister about her niece, you know, and it was like this emotionally sort of tricky sort of conversation. And it was beautiful how the participant in my course handled it because she used what she had been learning about seeking first to understand taking responsibility for the Chrysalis of the conversation. Extending a radical empathy and generosity as well. And so that had the conversation with her sister, which started off kind of touchy. Like her sister was like, why are you talking to me about my kid kind of defensiveness? And it was, it was this beautiful conversation where they actually ended up having a real breakthrough in their relationship. And it ended on a real high note and a lot of connection and intimacy was created. And the beats of that conversation are the same, whatever the conversation topic is. I just happened to be bringing race to it.
Joni
Right. And that’s the teaching, that’s the portal in. The doorway in is, is through conversation about race, which is so important. And I think about what you have created and think about what you have created. And it just makes me so excited because, Oh my gosh, how much healing, growth, transformation, awakening can happen. People to learn these skills and to do it, you’ve done it in this very concrete, tangible way.
Lori: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Joni: Yes. I’m waving the banner, like yes, yes, yes. Growth, lots of growth.
Lori: Growth. Yes, that’s. Right. Then you get to be a butterfly. Yeah.
Joni: Right. Sustainable growth at a rate. You can, you can do it.
Lori: Yes. That’s right. That’s right.
Joni
So if someone wanted to participate in the Rainbow Bridges community, how do they find it? What do they do?
Lori
Great. Thank you. I forgot to say my website. I get so excited about what’s happening. I was like, and this and that, and this.
Joni: The depth of the conversation.
Lori
Right. I know the depth. I’m like website, what? So the website it’s rainbow-bridges.teachable.com. And that’s the homepage. And you can click on all courses at the top and go to the Confident and Clear course page and read about it. And then my email is on there if people want to reach out. I’m at RainbowbridgesLM for Lori McDaniel. So it’s rainbowbridgeslm@gmail.com.
Joni: Terrific. And then you have a Facebook group as well?
Lori
I do. Yeah. I have the Rainbow Bridges community on Facebook. I don’t know the link for that off the top of my head.
Joni: I will have it in the show notes. Perfect.
Lori
Perfect. Yeah, I guess I’m not that much of a tech nerd, a true tech nerd would have memorized the URL. But yeah, people are welcome to join and reach out with any questions. I love talking about it as well. So if people are, um, what I’m, what I’m going to be doing is offering complimentary coaching. So it’s not up on my website yet, but I’m just going to be offering that from now through the end of January, if people want to schedule a complimentary coaching with me, like, let’s say they’re struggling with an issue around race. And honestly it could be any life issue because as we were saying, I think that for women, especially it’s so easy to translate from one area of life to another. So if people would like to take advantage of that, I’m available for that. And I’m scheduling those now.
Joni
Wonderful. So, and your course, Confident and Clear. So this episode, you and I are recording now, we’ll be out just after the first of the year. So it will be probably later that month? Later in January?
Lori
It’ll be sometime the last week in January. I don’t have the dates just yet, sometime between now and once we start up again at the beginning of the year, I’m going to put the actual date of when we’re starting, but it’ll be that last week of January that we start the next 10 week program.
Joni
Great. So if someone’s interested, they can go to your website, which is also the link is in the show notes and or the Facebook group. I’m, I’m sure you’ll be talking about it there as well. Yeah. Good, good. So as we bring this to a close, is there anything else, if you were to just check into your own inner wisdom, that feels important to name, express or articulate?
Lori
Thank you for that. Thanks for asking that. I think that the last thing I’ll say is two parts. And one is, it’s really important for people to seek first, to understand the other person, and to actually try and have compassion and understanding about where they’re coming from. Even when everything in your conditioning is like, no, don’t do that.
Joni: That makes no sense. I don’t get it.
Lori
Right. So that’s thing one, that would be my wisdom …
Joni: Pearl
Lori
Wisdom pearl one. Wisdom pearl two, is that it’s so important for everyone to get on the same page about what racism is. It’s not, it’s really not what we think it is. A lot of us think that it’s bad, mean people doing bad, mean things or saying bad, mean things to other people, but that’s not, that’s not it. Racism is actually a complex social historical system that we’re all inside of. It’s this complex system. So I have that as a cornerstone of what I, what my mission is, is to get everyone out of the good, bad thing.
Joni: The illusion. Yeah.
Lori
Because it becomes like, well, are you a good person or a bad person? And it’s like, well, this is not about morality at all. This is about the system.
Joni: Right.
Lori
So let’s just take that off the table. Right. We’re not talking about whether you’re a good, bad or bad person. We want to look at the system and how it’s showing up in this moment. That’s all. So that’s, that’s something I’m really passionate about as well.
Joni: Yes. Good, good. I’m glad, I’m glad you put that out there.
Lori: Thank you.
Joni
And from my perspective, it seems like it is a byproduct or a key tenant of the patriarchy we’ll say.
Lori: Yeah.
Joni
And yeah, so as we are moving forward and the patriarchy is dissolving, uh and racism will not dissolve fast enough, but those are both aspects plus other things in addition that are needing to crumble. And kind of emerge a new, more whole, and honoring way of relating to each other can emerge as those crumble and dissolve.
Lori
Yes. I love that. Dissolving and emerging. I think that’s exactly, exactly the process we’re in and, and it’s really beautiful, you know, it’s really quite beautiful and extraordinary.
Joni: Yes. When it’s not a hot mess it’s beautiful.
Lori: Yeah, yeah.
Joni: It is. But it is. Yes. I absolutely agree with you.
Lori: Yeah. Well Said. Thank you.
Joni
You’re very welcome. Well, thank you, Lori. You are the first episode and interview of the year. So thank you for starting us off in 2021 with new possibilities.
Lori
Beautiful. Well, thank you, Joni. Thanks so much for having me on. It’s just been a really rich and delightful conversation. I really want to acknowledge you and your spirit of generosity and compassion that really comes through on this subject. And thank you for your grace around it.
Joni
Aww, thank you. I’m taking that in. I really appreciate it, Lori. And I want to take a moment just to say thank you, dear listener for being present with us today and want to acknowledge as always the reminder to trust what your heart knows.